2020. 1. 24. 05:00ㆍ카테고리 없음
A very warm hello from north of the Bay of Bengal. This is my first post although I have been a spider on the wall for some time. That was largely because I really have not enough knowledge about shotguns to contribute but only a wealth of questions.
I have tried to read as many topics as I can on this forum to try and learn but frankly while all of it has been absorbing quite a bit of it is beyond me. Any way now I have joined up I would be very grateful for any information and light on my questions regarding the W W Greener 12 gauge shotgun detailed below. The gun is a 12 gauge W W Greener non ejector shotgun in F4 grade.
Nicely shaped hammers and Greener ‘wedge-fast’ third grip. This is a classic Greener hammer gun as advocated in style by Greener in ‘The Gun and its Development’. At the time of manufacture, it embodied all Greener’s ideas of how a breech-loader should be made.
That is the first question. Just what is an F4 grade?
The serial number is 48914. Is it possible to date it from this? The barrels are inscribed with ' W W Greener 68 haymarket london & St. Mary's Square Birmingham, Winner at the London Gun Trials 1875 1877 1878 & 1879' The chambers are 2 1/2 inch by measurement but the flats of the barrels have no markings whatsoever showing them to be such. The barrels are marked 'Sir Whitworth's steel'. The flats of the barrels themselves are only marked with the following (see pics): 13 Two crossed sceptres marks choke. There are no nitro proof markings, no service pressure marks, no max load marks.
Does this mean that the gun was proofed for black powder only? It seems rather surpising given thae overall makeup of the gun!
I would truly appreciate any light being shed on this aspect of the gun and if possible an idea as to when it was made. I'm sorry for the quality of the pics but they were taken in my local gunsmiths shop and the lighting ws not the best. If you need any more photos I'll try and gt them tomorrow. There is one further fundamental problem with the gun. The left barrel has a dent 12 inches from the breech. I have read a number of threads here about dents and the general opinion, as far as I can make out, is that dents if properly raised will leave the barrels very usable but if you look at the pic you will see it is about where the fingers of the leading hand would be when you mounted the gun.
Would you use it provide the rest of the gun is sound? Thanks for your time and help. All the best Skeeterbd #275908 - 04/22/12 05:19 PM Re: W W Greener (pics and questions) Sidelock Registered: 11/03/06 Posts: 571. First of all, welcome to the forum. F4 was a 40 guinea gun built on the 1880 patent Facile Princeps action with Greener's 'treble wedge fast' locking system. Your gun was made in 1900. I cannot see any nitro proof marks on your gun from the photos, though the proof marks suggest it was proofed under 1896-1904 rules in Birmingham.
It is a nominal 12-bore with tight bores (hence the 13 stamp). Chambers are 2 1/2'.
This is a nice quality, well made gun. Removal of the dent will depend on wall thickness and the skill of the man you engage to raise it. It looks quite sharp: a 'soft' dent can be raised with less residual effect. The barrel steel refers to the fluid pressed forging system devised by Sir Joseph Whitworth, it heralded the replacement of damascus steel as a gun barrel material.
Skeeterbd, welcome to a great site where there is a vast amount of knowledge. From the markings on your barrels water table of '13' that would be bore.
It could be from.710 to.719, I believe. Anything over that and it would be out of proof (from honing). I can't quite make out what the choke markings are.
Sir Joseph Whitworth steel was the best you could get. An F4 was a medium priced gun at 35/40 gns., and is the Third System of Grading from 1893-1903. Your serial number dates it to 1900, and there were a total of 919 guns made that year. The dent should be easy enough to fix and I'm sure it will not hurt anything, but the barrels wall thickness should be checked even if it didn't have the dent. Good luck with it and thanks for sharing, and I'm sure there will be other more knowledgeable people helping you out. Thanks to all for the invaluable information that you have passed on to me and the warm welcome.
The dent will be raised properly. It occurred when the gunsmith accidentally dropped the barrels in front of me! Otherwise the barrels are as new and the action is fine. It has been around in my family for some time and came to me as a gift from a senior cousin although I'm sure it wasn't new when he got it. When you say use it with appropriate cartridges, would Eley Grand Prix 1 1/8oz loads be alright or is this gun for BP only. There are no nitro markings on the flats! One last question.
Did Greener always use the elephant mark on the barrels from the beginning or did it come in later. I have been told something about a circus elephant! Thanks again All the best Skeeterbd #275957 - 04/23/12 02:54 AM Re: W W Greener (pics and questions) Sidelock Registered: 10/09/03 Posts: 609 Loc: New Zealand. Nice gun,I have grown very fond of the Facile Princeps action. I believe the Elephant trade mark has been around almost as long as the WW Greener firm.I don't think anything has ever surfaced to prove a connection with a circus Elephant being shot however. Did you perhaps say 'gosh,how unfortunate'or some such when he dropped the barrels? Its only BP proved.
I would get them nitro proved.They should pass with flying colours. GDU Edited by Gregdownunder ( 04/23/12 03:00 AM) #275990 - 04/23/12 11:54 AM Re: W W Greener (pics and questions) Sidelock Registered: 06/24/07 Posts: 1416 Loc: South Carolina. Updated every minute of everyday! Copyright (c) 1993 - 2017 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved.
Doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only.
Doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED 'AS IS' WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. Doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. Doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. Doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice.
Doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk. Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.
A very warm hello from north of the Bay of Bengal. This is my first post although I have been a spider on the wall for some time.
That was largely because I really have not enough knowledge about shotguns to contribute but only a wealth of questions. I have tried to read as many topics as I can on this forum to try and learn but frankly while all of it has been absorbing quite a bit of it is beyond me. Any way now I have joined up I would be very grateful for any information and light on my questions regarding the W W Greener 12 gauge shotgun detailed below. The gun is a 12 gauge W W Greener non ejector shotgun in F4 grade.
That is the first question. Just what is an F4 grade? The serial number is 48914. Is it possible to date it from this? The barrels are inscribed with ' W W Greener 68 haymarket london & St.
Mary's Square Birmingham, Winner at the London Gun Trials 1875 1877 1878 & 1879' The chambers are 2 1/2 inch by measurement but the flats of the barrels have no markings whatsoever showing them to be such. The barrels are marked 'Sir Whitworth's steel'. The flats of the barrels themselves are only marked with the following (see pics): 13 Two crossed sceptres marks choke.
There are no nitro proof markings, no service pressure marks, no max load marks. Does this mean that the gun was proofed for black powder only?
It seems rather surpising given thae overall makeup of the gun! I would truly appreciate any light being shed on this aspect of the gun and if possible an idea as to when it was made.
Antique Ww Greener Shotguns
I'm sorry for the quality of the pics but they were taken in my local gunsmiths shop and the lighting ws not the best. If you need any more photos I'll try and gt them tomorrow. There is one further fundamental problem with the gun. The left barrel has a dent 12 inches from the breech. I have read a number of threads here about dents and the general opinion, as far as I can make out, is that dents if properly raised will leave the barrels very usable but if you look at the pic you will see it is about where the fingers of the leading hand would be when you mounted the gun. Would you use it provide the rest of the gun is sound?
Greener Shotgun Values
Thanks for your time and help. All the best Skeeterbd #275908 - 04/22/12 05:19 PM Re: W W Greener (pics and questions) Sidelock Registered: 11/03/06 Posts: 571. First of all, welcome to the forum. F4 was a 40 guinea gun built on the 1880 patent Facile Princeps action with Greener's 'treble wedge fast' locking system.
Your gun was made in 1900. I cannot see any nitro proof marks on your gun from the photos, though the proof marks suggest it was proofed under 1896-1904 rules in Birmingham. It is a nominal 12-bore with tight bores (hence the 13 stamp). Chambers are 2 1/2'. This is a nice quality, well made gun. Removal of the dent will depend on wall thickness and the skill of the man you engage to raise it.
It looks quite sharp: a 'soft' dent can be raised with less residual effect. The barrel steel refers to the fluid pressed forging system devised by Sir Joseph Whitworth, it heralded the replacement of damascus steel as a gun barrel material. Skeeterbd, welcome to a great site where there is a vast amount of knowledge. From the markings on your barrels water table of '13' that would be bore. It could be from.710 to.719, I believe.
Anything over that and it would be out of proof (from honing). I can't quite make out what the choke markings are. Sir Joseph Whitworth steel was the best you could get. An F4 was a medium priced gun at 35/40 gns., and is the Third System of Grading from 1893-1903. Your serial number dates it to 1900, and there were a total of 919 guns made that year. The dent should be easy enough to fix and I'm sure it will not hurt anything, but the barrels wall thickness should be checked even if it didn't have the dent.
Good luck with it and thanks for sharing, and I'm sure there will be other more knowledgeable people helping you out. Thanks to all for the invaluable information that you have passed on to me and the warm welcome. The dent will be raised properly.
It occurred when the gunsmith accidentally dropped the barrels in front of me! Otherwise the barrels are as new and the action is fine. It has been around in my family for some time and came to me as a gift from a senior cousin although I'm sure it wasn't new when he got it.
When you say use it with appropriate cartridges, would Eley Grand Prix 1 1/8oz loads be alright or is this gun for BP only. There are no nitro markings on the flats! One last question. Did Greener always use the elephant mark on the barrels from the beginning or did it come in later. I have been told something about a circus elephant!
Thanks again All the best Skeeterbd #275957 - 04/23/12 02:54 AM Re: W W Greener (pics and questions) Sidelock Registered: 10/09/03 Posts: 609 Loc: New Zealand. Nice gun,I have grown very fond of the Facile Princeps action. I believe the Elephant trade mark has been around almost as long as the WW Greener firm.I don't think anything has ever surfaced to prove a connection with a circus Elephant being shot however. Did you perhaps say 'gosh,how unfortunate'or some such when he dropped the barrels? Its only BP proved. I would get them nitro proved.They should pass with flying colours.
GDU Edited by Gregdownunder ( 04/23/12 03:00 AM) #275990 - 04/23/12 11:54 AM Re: W W Greener (pics and questions) Sidelock Registered: 06/24/07 Posts: 1416 Loc: South Carolina. Updated every minute of everyday! Copyright (c) 1993 - 2017 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. Doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469.
USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. Doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED 'AS IS' WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT.
Doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. Doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. Doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. Doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.
Ww Greener Shotgun Serial Number Lookup
Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.